PREJEAN         First off, what experiences have you had within the ceramics field since graduating WNMU [Western New Mexico University]?

RAMIREZ         First and foremost, I got an artist-in-residence position here at Western [WNMU]. That gave me an opportunity to figure out next steps on where I wanted to go in the ceramics field. I started working at Syzygy Tile, which was really influential for me because it helped me learn the ins and outs of tile production and business.

I was trying to connect the ties of what I learned in school, with Syzygy, and from my involvement with the Mimbres Regional Arts Council and the Youth Mural Program. Also, obviously, the famous Silver City CLAY Festival that we have here. It opened opportunities for me to figure out what other ceramic artists are doing in the field. I was able to help visiting artists such as Bede Clarke, Julia Galloway and Sunshine Cobb. Networking is something that has been really important post-graduation.

During my second year of the residency, I was encouraged to apply for different Post-Bacc programs. That was influenced by Courtney [Michaud], WNMU Assistant Professor of Ceramics], who has been a great mentor. I got the opportunity to go to the University of Montana [UM] in Missoula. I think the reason I got in there was because I had the association with Julia [Galloway] from CLAYFest. So, networking is super key to figuring out what you want to do.

PREJEAN         When you went to UM, did you go for the Post-Bacc or the MFA program? I’m curious about that.

RAMIREZ         I went into their Post-Bacc program. The faculty is so great there. At that time, Julia Galloway was doing her sabbatical year. There was an instructor, Christina Erives, another Latina artist in ceramics – it was really sweet to hang out with her in the same studio space and be able to bounce different ideas around. I was able to fine-tune many things I needed for my career and my future. For example, your artist statement and resume are important in polishing your image. Being in the Post-Bacc program gave me an insight to the MFA program there. I was able to pursue further opportunities because of the people I got to know.

So, I was working at MT in 2019-2020 and that’s when COVID happened – shutdowns happened. When spring break ended, we couldn’t get back into our studios – we weren’t allowed.

Part of me felt there was more work I needed to do for myself and for the community. So, a couple graduate students and a couple friends and another Post-Bacc, we all ended up creating a new ceramics studio up in Missoula, called Wildfire Ceramic Studio. I have a show coming up with them when I get back to Montana.

PREJEAN         Oh, that’s awesome. How exciting!

RAMIREZ         It’s all through networking that I got these opportunities. If I wouldn’t have said yes – I moved blindly – I’d never visited Montana before, but it’s a great ceramic community where you feel like everyone is a clay family.

PREJEAN         Awesome, I know that a lot of your work is via tiles, and that was probably also because of Syzygy, and Christina [Erives] also does tile work, right?

RAMIREZ         Yeah, that’s right.

PREJEAN         I know you have mentioned previously your struggle with your identity as a Mexican-American, how you didn’t really feel you fit in one side or the other. Have you found that identity yet? I am someone who was born and raised here in Silver City. A lot of my heritage and family are from Mexico – but that wasn’t my upbringing. Do you have any tips for me?

RAMIREZ         I would be proud of where you’re from. When I first went to Montana – I was a little afraid of the demographic up there, because it is mostly white. But I realized that everybody has different paths in life and their careers and the opportunities they get.

At first, I was embarrassed to tell people where I used to live. My mom crossed the border when she was pregnant with me in her belly. If it wasn’t for her, I wouldn’t call myself an American citizen.

Moving so far away from where you’re from, it opens up different views of different cultures and makes you understand your heritage better. The word Latino is so generalized, but there are many types of Latinos, and you’re just in a little bubble of that identity. The Latino community in Missoula is Colombians and Peruvians and some people from Guatemala and some people from Mexico. Not everybody is from the border. So I would be proud of where you’re from.

PREJEAN         I appreciate that.

RAMIREZ         It’s a struggle. I had a little bit of an identity-crisis when I was up in Missoula. I didn’t know the term BIPOC [black, indigenous, people of color]. I had to ask, and yes, of course I am BIPOC. I’m second generation. My mom crossed the border, though my dad was already here. The whole question made me curious about my roots. That curiosity helped my work. Some of the work I do is heavily influenced by border issues. Because I was born and raised in a border town, I think it’s important for me to do that in my work; so other people can realize what is happening.

PREJEAN         That brings me into my next question – when it comes to the content you put into your work, when you look within, is most of your inspiration from growing up or where you’re at currently?

RAMIREZ         There are different themes to my work, depending on what is influencing me at the time. I remember during my residency [at WNMU], I made some ceramic spray cans that had scenes of issues that you would see on the border. Just because, that was so important to me, and what my mom did is so important for me.  I wanted to share that story through art.

Throughout the years, I get different themes of what’s influencing me. When I moved to Montana, I ended up making pieces that were strictly on child separation and what was happening at detention centers on the border. Now, I’m clashing my Mexican heritage with [my life in Missoula]. At Wildfire, I had a solo show of La Lotería mugs. Have you heard of La Lotería? Yeah, it’s a Mexican bingo game. I ended up taking pictures of things that I experienced myself in Montana; seeing the state flower, seeing a bear; and tied these two ideas together to create my La Lotería, but on mugs. That’s another identity-play theme that I’ve had in my work.

With the street signs I’m making right now – they’ve been so, so fun, because I’m getting away from the heaviness of political times and moving towards identity. There was one tile specifically, that is a sign to go to The US or to Mexico. I felt like both were home. I do light graffiti text on what I was feeling when I see those words. It’s nice to use art as a vehicle to figure yourself out.

PREJEAN         I totally agree with you. I have been drawn to art all my life. My dad, he’s a drummer, he’s been in a few metal bands. And then my mom, she does floral work and sews. I always knew I wanted to pursue art, but I was nervous picking a direction.

RAMIREZ         It’s a scary thing to figure out. When I was in Missoula, I applied to a couple of residencies. And because of hard work and determination, I got offered a two-year residency program in Montana, at the Clay Studio of Missoula. That’s another thing that I’ve been doing outside of the university.

Since I’ve been there, I’m prouder to say that I’m Latina. I’ve been trying to advocate for more classes for people of color. I’m part of a BIPOC art collective. These feel like important things that I’m carrying on with the work that I’m doing with ceramics and then my personal work, too, if that makes sense.

PREJEAN         Yeah, it definitely does. That’s what I’ve been hearing a lot, just go out there and meet people. I was always a ‘loner’, but meeting George [Rodriguez] and everyone, At CLAYFest this year, I realized that community is something I’m really passionate about. It’s a core element in clay. I know for a lot of us within NCECA [National Council on Education for the Ceramic Arts], CLAYFest is basically a family get together.
RAMIREZ         I like to explain it as a comic-con for ceramic artists. Yeah, where you can just nerd out with all your old friends. It’s a beautiful feeling to be around.

PREJEAN         I primarily make utilitarian work, but I’m also delving into sculptural work. How did you end up settling with the tile making that you primarily do?
RAMIREZ         It was a way for me to explore what I wanted to do. For my first year of the residency here, I remember making large torso figures with the barbie head, but it didn’t have the top on it; it was just the round nub. That was because it was themed with body dysmorphia and my own personal issues. You can take sculpture in different directions, but what I wanted to do is have a message. It’s a conversation starter and, in my opinion, more accessible having it on the dinner table than having something displayed on a pedestal. I haven’t done sculpture in a long time, but it’s because I’m so happy decorating. I feel like there’s this cathartic feeling I get using reflective spray paint or tagging on my cups. That feels more unique to my personality. Don’t get me wrong, I love sculpting; I sculpt every once in a while, and I’ve been trying to figure out how to combine those two together.

PREJEAN         Right. It’s a struggle, because I want to do it all and it’s challenging to find a way to bring them all together.

RAMIREZ         Just a little tip: Do it all but do it fast. That way you’re not so dedicated to an idea. It’s something that I’ve been noticing with my own work; I need to have everything set, and I haven’t allowed myself room for play. That’s why those street signs are fun to make. It’s an opportunity for me to play with my work. When you’re experimenting, have fun with it. Don’t really think about it. Let the clay just talk to you. It’s a silly thing to say, but it’s just like when you’re in the feeling of making something.

PREJEAN         I totally agree with you. That’s what I was trying to go for with the George Rodriguez workshop; just have fun.
RAMIREZ         Yeah, exactly. That’s what I did with the Clay Festival too. I ended up going into this mentality – it’s just for experimenting. You’re not getting a grade on this. This is for you. It is really nice to allow those moments of play for yourself. And as I’m telling you, I’m reminding myself. It’s funny that that’s how that happens.

PREJEAN         I have the same mentality where I can delve in, but I have to actually practice what I preach. One last question, since I have one more year left, and I have the BFA program next spring. Do you have any tips for me for my last year?

RAMIREZ         So, for your BFA show, do you have any concepts?

PREJEAN         I do!

RAMIREZ         I would say: go wild. This is your moment to shine. Allow yourself to have fun; this is everything you have learned so far, this is the point you’re at.

I can tell you what I did for my BFA show: I sculpted cinderblocks. They were realistic looking cinderblocks made from clay and graffitied over. I did each cinderblock with a certain text in English in Spanish and then it played a visual story on the other side. You can play around with identity, you can play around with your roots, but I say go big. It makes a statement about where your next step is going to take you.

There are so many opportunities. If you don’t want to go straight into an MFA program there are residencies and postbaccalaureate programs where you can get eyes on what an MFA program is all about. Figure out what is important to you now. For me, being in Missoula I feel like helping underrepresented communities is the theme for me right now. Ask around, the more questions you have the more you will figure out.

CHATTERTON  Hello Nicole, it’s really nice to meet you. My first question: you are also from Oregon. Where in Oregon are you from?

MARTINEZ      A tiny little southern coastal town called Brookings. We’re right on the border of California. I go there to, you know, hydrate.

CHATTERTON  Yeah, that is so fair! New Mexico is so dry! Okay, so to start, you have a bachelor’s in sociology from BYU [Brigham Young University]; a master’s in sociology from NMSU [New Mexico State University], and then a master’s in social work from WNMU. Can you provide a little bit of an overview of your educational journey?

MARTINEZ      I was raised Mormon and my older siblings went to BYU. I remember the first sociology class I had – the impression that graduate instructor made stuck with me. I realized there are so many interesting ways of looking at things – different levels and dynamics – instantly I decided I wanted to learn more.

After graduation, I went and worked for the Department of Children and Family Services. I conducted intakes for CPS [Child Protective Services] for about four years – for child abuse and neglect. It was terrible. It was just really, really tough, and I don’t know that I was prepared for that. I don’t know if anybody is, and to be honest, while the child abuse part of it was the terrible part; the thing that finally got to me was just how bad people could be to each other – people calling on things where I would think, “You could help this child right now.”

I decided I wanted to do something else, either a work change or some sort of life change. I had a brother who was teaching at NMSU. He convinced me I should move down and go back to school. I got my master’s and stayed on to teach. Then the opportunity came to join the Community of Hope. We have a lot of interns here and I needed my social work degree to be licensed to oversee them. It happened organically in that way. I knew that professionally I did want to keep growing and learn as much as I could about my profession. I had just had a baby when I started at WNMU. I was also the director here and doing my internship.

CHATTERTON  Wow.

MARTINEZ      I took on all of that and passed all the exams and I am now an LCSW [Licensed Clinical Social Worker]. That was the educational track for me.

CHATTERTON  I was wondering if it happened organically or if you had a set plan for where you were going. How was your experience at Western? Did you do it online? Did you do it in person?

MARTINEZ      I did it online. I was a non-traditional student, but we had a cool cohort of older students. I think having a virtual opportunity picks up a new demographic of people who might have thought, ‘I’m too old to go back in person.’ WNMU made the process easy.

CHATTERTON  What was it about sociology that you initially really liked when you were at BYU?

MARTINEZ      I remember learning about criminal justice and conflict theory and functional theory; it all fit together in a way that made so much sense to me. I love learning about the patterns of people and why we do what we do.

CHATTERTON  I’m graduating with my bachelor’s in sociology in December. So, I love seeing other’s enthusiasm about it. I think it’s a great perspective to have.

MARTINEZ      Do you have a plan for what comes after that?

CHATTERTON  I’m thinking Oregon State University (OSU). They have a really cool program where you can add a queer studies minor on to different master’s programs. I’m thinking a master’s in public policy with a queer studies minor, and from there somewhere into the nonprofit world.

MARTINEZ      I went to the University of Oregon for a year. Ducks vs. Beavers!

CHATTERTON  I love that so many of my friends went there, but the campus didn’t feel like home as much as OSU did.

I’d like to know more about your career path. So, you were the housing program manager at Community of Hope for 6 years and you’re now the executive director. How was that transition into a leadership role?

MARTINEZ      It was interesting. The agency when I came on, we had very limited programs and a small staff of eight. We had just picked up our first housing program, before we were just a day shelter. I knew the previous director from friendship circles. She said, “Hey, can you come help me run this grant up over the next 10 months until the YWCA come and take it over?” and I agreed. I was running the family shelter and teaching and then – the day before the key exchange – the YWCA told us it no longer made sense for them financially. They backed out and I was asked to stay. I’d already had my going away party; I was moving to San Francisco, but I agreed.

I wanted, instead of operating a shelter, to start helping house people, so we asked Housing & Urban Development (HUD) if we could convert our grant to rental assistance instead of keeping a bunch of families stagnating in the shelter.  I started courting landlords, you know, “Hey, I got money for you. Here’s this great family; I’ll come visit them every month.” I was learning a lot and it was working – families were not coming back. So that became my job. We started to aggressively go after housing grant funds and grew the agency through our housing efforts. While it’s important to establish rapport and provide basic needs for people; that’s not what’s going to ultimately end homelessness.

When the director left, the board asked me to step in as they did a nationwide search. I’d gone through all of these certifications and trainings and exams to do the housing piece. We had just opened Camp Hope at his point, which is the tent city in our backyard. We’re a whole campus of agencies; a food pantry, soup kitchen, healthcare clinic, substance abuse and mental health recovery programs, and a daycare for homeless children.

So, I’m new as the director as all this is starting and for a minute it really felt like we were going backwards, but then I could see that people were safe. They were close to services; I was quickly able to transition them into apartments and get them out of homelessness and off the streets. I spent a lot of time at the agency during that transition. I stepped it up as much as I could. I came into the position pretty young, so I had a lot of energy to dedicate.

I started looking outside the box things at what we could be doing to help address homelessness in our community – buying property, pursuing development – and it was working. People started to give me invitations to apply for funding. I remember maybe a year into it, one of the board of directors took me to a luncheon. She said, ‘you know, you’ve really been hiding your light under a bushel’ and I thought, ‘oh… I’m really doing this.’

CHATTERTON  Something I’ve noticed with nonprofit work is that it’s easy to get into a cycle of grants and not be action-oriented, but it seems like you’re passionate about getting it done and being decisive on the actions you take, not worrying about paperwork.

MARTINEZ      Yeah, it would have been easy for me to say, ‘we don’t do that;’ this is what we do, we’re a day shelter. We wanted to set a standard and by doing that have an effect statewide. Especially during COVID, I did a lot of consulting for other nonprofits who had congregate shelters where everybody was getting sick. I wanted to share as much information as possible. We all have a responsibility to take care of our own. We started to run out of enough units that were affordable… so now it’s time to start developing again. There’s no pressure for me to do that, keep expanding, except I think, internally. Every single day, I walk past hundreds of unhoused people and I just know that there’s more that we could be doing. It’s not about me or my capacity. It’s about what we collectively can do in our community.

CHATTERTON  You touched on COVID, how did that affect your work?

MARTINEZ      We were fortunate because we had the camp. I think we had two people during the pandemic that got COVID. All the parks in our city were shut down; the mental health providers shut down, so clients didn’t have access to services or medications. They were flushed out of all these public spaces. That was really tough for the people we serve, who already have it so bad surviving outside. We help them apply for social security and disability. Those offices shut down.

We were again fortunate as we got a huge surplus of funding. The government was like, ‘Take more, take more house everybody!’ We served way more clients than ever before; people who never thought they would face homelessness or getting evicted, so many people lost their jobs, lost their incomes. We became the first stop for citizens facing foreclosures and evictions.

There were some really good things too; we improved our standards. We also were able to serve a ton of people and it is an honor to be able to do that. But the long-lasting effects we’ve seen are very bad. Now people are priced out of their old units. We had seven apartment complexes that were bought by out-of-state companies during the pandemic. They raised the rent to where people on fixed incomes and disability can’t afford that. It is above fair market rent, which our government wouldn’t let us go above in rental assistance, which has led to a ton more people being homeless. Now, we have such a very hard time finding units to transition people, so we have a lot more people living out on the streets.

CHATTERTON  What do you think a solution would be? Do we need more units built? Do we need more rent subsidized units? What are some thoughts about solutions for that?

MARTINEZ      Our organization is voucher rich. It’s just about the units. When we started to see this trend begin, we created a toolkit to learn how to help with development projects. We worked with a developer for the City of Las Cruises to develop 40 units for permanent support housing for people who are chronically homeless, who have a disability and have been on the streets a long time; those that are hardest to house. We opened that last August and ended homelessness for 40 people in two months. That was awesome. We’re looking to do that again.

I advocate at the legislative level for ways that we can use some of the vouchers that are tenant-based. That means a client can go find an apartment and rent that apartment. I would also like to have a set-aside amount that are project-based. So, when we build these units, 25 will be set aside and the subsidy is on that unit. If a person moves out, they don’t get the subsidy.

It’s a long game though. For right now, there should be attention given to safe outdoor space practices. Even though I’m super proud of the work at Camp Hope and sheltering 50 people every night, I don’t want people to get sidetracked and think that sheltering is the answer. It’s a piece of the continuum.

I think that those are some of the solutions. Also, using legislative money, rewriting tax codes for low-income housing tax credits. Municipalities should change their planning and zoning codes that relate to development. The way they’re written now doesn’t incentivize our developers to want to do affordable housing. They won’t make money on it, so why would they? But if you could incentivize with waivers for parking and impact fees, it would make the prospect more attractive for developers to partner with charitable organizations like ours.

CHATTERTON  You have touched a little bit on chronic homelessness. Can you describe what about being on the streets for longer makes it more difficult to rehouse people.

MARTINEZ      A lot of people incorrectly believe that others become homeless because they’re drug addicts or alcoholics, when oftentimes those are the results of being homeless. There are so many things that can lead somebody to living out on the streets, but a lot of times it’s family dissolution. It is divorces and break ups. It is people being kicked out. It is systemic racism. It is LGBTQ issues. Then once you’re on the streets it feels so easy to give up.

I think the main thing that happens is trauma. Even one night of being homeless is a traumatic event, but coupled with things like violence and sexual assault that happen repeatedly when you’re outside – that constant state, like an alarm bell ringing in your head, ‘Who’s going to take my phone? Where can I eat today? Where can I go to the bathroom? Where can I go have a beer? Where can I keep my stuff? Is my dog going to have enough food? – this is a constant drain on a person. Stopping that alarm bell with substances is common.

We’ve designed our programs to be as trauma-informed, as possible. We follow harm reduction models where people don’t have to be sober to utilize our services. They do have to show generally good behavior. No one can come in here and use racial slurs or yell at our people but if you’re intoxicated and can still maintain – you bet I want you here where I can keep an eye on you.

CHATTERTON  Yeah, showing that you care, because I’m sure that years and years, trauma upon trauma, it’s very difficult to make a change…

Non-profit work can feel constant. How do you tend to balance your work life and your personal life?

MARTINEZ      There is a lot of stress, but I have a really good team that helps shoulder the load. Part of being a good leader is choosing competent people and trusting them and building a good foundation. I want to make sure that we’re building in programming where my staff feel like they can address their secondary trauma and when they need self-care not feel like they’ll be penalized.

I set boundaries with phone calls for myself. I am always on call; if law enforcement or the mayor calls me – I’m going to answer. If it’s something that can wait until Monday, then I’ll leave it. I also rock climb. That’s a positive outlet that allows me to disconnect from work.

CHATTERTON  Nice.

MARTINEZ      I’m trying not to fall and die! So, I need to shut it all off for a certain amount of time. There’s something about climbing where you get into a zone and just practice breathing. That helps me in difficult situations of all kinds. Not just with clients. There are also a lot of people who don’t like the work that we do. They don’t like that we’re helping homeless people.

CHATTERTON  Do you have any advice for students who are feeling unsure about their career path?

MARTINEZ      It’s good to talk to people. There are so many different types of social work. With a sociology degree you will be hireable in a lot of different places. Ask as many questions as you can, connect with as many people in different fields as you can, and look at different options. You have so many opportunities to do things like that right now. I think it’s nice if you know exactly what you want to do and go do it, but feeling unsure is okay too. There are so many different fields out there that are hiring and need people that have a social service background and understanding.

There’s a saying I like, ‘proceed as the way opens.’ Undertake actions without prior clarity about all the details, and with a respect for the ambiguity of the process. There are things we don’t know and can’t know. There are many paths. If you are not immediately on the right one, take a different one. As you go, you will gain the clarity that will inform your next choice, and the one after that. Establish rapport with the people you are working with; practice professionalism, even if you don’t believe in what they’re doing – you will take that experience with you as you go through different jobs. That generates power when someone’s looking at your resume and they need to follow up. Those things make a difference.